Hoisted From The Comments
Some stuff is too good to leave in the shadows. On my Bedrock post, James Hatfield writes in with a chilling point, but one which I've been making for a long while:
”every year we’re throwing more and more JS on top of the web”
The way things are going in my world, we are looking at replacing the web with JS, not simply layering. At a certain point you look at it all and say “why bother”. Browsers render the DOM not markup. They parse markup. Just cut out the middle man and send out DOM – in the form of JS constructs.
The second part is to stop generating this markup which then must be parsed on a server at the other end of a slow and high latency prone communication channel. Instead send small compact instructions to the browser/client that tells it how to render and when to render. Later you send over the data, when it’s needed...
This is a clear distillation of what scares me about the road we're headed down because for each layer you throw out and decide to re-build in JS, you end up only doing what you must, and that's often a deadline-driven must. Accessibility went to hell? Latency isn't great? Doesn't work at all without script? Can't be searched? When you use built-ins, those things are more-or-less taken care of. When we make them optional by seizing the reigns with script, not only do we wind up playing them off against each other (which matters more, a11y or latency?) we often find that developers ignore the bits that aren't flashy. Think a11y on the web isn't great now? Just wait 'till it's all JS driven.
It doesn't have to be this way. When we get Model Driven Views into the browser we'll have the powerful "just send data and template it on the client side" system everyone's looking for but without threatening the searchability, a11y, and fallback behaviors that make the web so great. And this is indicative of a particularly strong property of markup: it's about relationships. "This thing references that thing over there and does something with it" is hard for a search engine to tease out if it's hidden in code, but if you put it in markup, well, you've got a future web that continues to be great for users, the current crop of developers, and whoever builds and uses systems constructed on top of it all later. That last group, BTW, is you if you use a search engine.
But it wasn't all clarity and light in the comments. Austin Cheney commented on the last post to say:
And, after I tried to make the case that noting how it is today is no replacement for a vision for how it should be, Austin responds:
The problem with today’s web is that it is so focused on empowering the people that it is forgetting the technology along the way. One school of thought suggests the people would be better empowered if their world were less abstract, cost radically less to build and maintain, and is generally more expressive. One way to achieve such objectives is alter where costs exist in the current software life cycle of the web. If, for instance, the majority of costs were moved from maintenance to initial build then it could be argued that more time is spent being creative instead of maintaining.
I have found that when working in HTML alone that I save incredible amounts of time when I develop only in XHTML 1.1, because the browser tells you where your errors are. ... Challenges are removed and costs are reduced by pushing the largest cost challenges to the front of development.
... The typical wisdom is that people need to be empowered. If you would not think this way in your strategic software planning then why would it make sense to think this way about strategic application of web technologies? ...
This might all sound very rational on one level, but a few points need to be made:
- If we're not building technology for people, WTF are we doing with these CPU cycles exactly?
- Speed of iteration is a key enabler of progress in any technology stack I've ever worked in
- Strictness fails in the wild
I think Austin's point about moving costs from maintenance to build is supposed to suggest that if we were only more strict about things, we'd have less expensive maintenance of systems, but it's not clear to me that this has anything to do with strictness. My observation from building systems is that this has a lot more to do with being able to build modular, isolated systems that compose well. Combine that with systems that let you iterate fast, and you can grow very large things that can evolve in response to user needs without turning into spaghetti quite so quickly. Yes, the web isn't great for that today, but strictness is orthogonal. Nothing about Web Components demands strictness to make maintainability infinitely better.
And the last point isn't news. Postel's Law isn't a plea about what you, dear software designer, should be doing, it's an insightful clue into the economics of systems at scale. XML tried being strict and it didn't work. Not even for RSS. Mark Pilgrim's famously heroic attempts at building a reliable feed parser match the war stories I've heard out of the builders of every large RSS system I've ever talked to. It's not that it's a nice idea to be forgiving about what you accept, it's that there's no way around it if you want scale. What Austin has done is the classic bait-and-switch: he has rhetorically substituted what works in his organization (and works well!) for what's good for the whole world, or even what's plausible. I see this common logical error in many a standards adherent/advocate. They imagine some world in which it's possible to be strict about what you accept. I think that world might be possible, but the population would need to be less than the size of a small city. Such a population would never have ever created any of the technology we have, and real-world laws would be how we'd adjudicate disputes. As soon as your systems and contracts deal with orders of magnitude more people, it pays to be reliable. You'll win if you do and lose if you don't. It's inescapable. So lets banish this sort of small-town thinking to the mental backwaters where it belongs and get on with building things for everyone. After all, this is about people. Helping sentient beings achieve their goals in ways that are both plausible and effective.
If helping people is not what this is about, I want out.