Infrequently Noted

Alex Russell on browsers, standards, and the process of progress.

Comments for Dojo: Twice As Fast When It Matters Most


Alex, you work for Google. Is there a reason why Google Closure is not included in TaskSpeed?
by Les at
http://twitpic.com/10bcfa/full

jQuery has reached a saturation point now where it is often the default choice for client side application development. The momentum behind it and the number of developers who enjoy using it far outweighs any marginal performance differences.

John has spoken out against in-browser speed tests for almost two years now. The fact that he could knock out jQuery 1.4.2pre in less than 24 hours and invalidate your test results makes this post and the Dojo home page changes appear completely pointless and needlessly confrontational.

by Jake McGraw at
Looks like QOOXDOO kicks all other frameworks butt for pure speed.
by Tim at
@Alex, why are you using a waaaaaaay old version of QOOXDOO? In TaskSpeed, it only has QOOXDOO version 0.8.

Version 1.0.1 is the current release.

http://news.qooxdoo.org/qooxdoo-1-0-1-released

by Tim at
@John

When can we expect 1.4.2 of JQuery to be released.

I always welcome performance improvements.

by Tim at
Tim: you probably should ping Pete Higgins about that, or better yet, send him a patch.
by alex at
Les: 'cause nobody has sent Pete a patch?
by alex at
Rutuaj,

There's no strangling going on here. As you can see, the simple act of putting this out there has spurred another open source project to better itself. And no doubt Dojo will respond with a similar action.

This is friendly competition, in which everyone wins. And it's great to see.

Thanks

Shane

@alex: I agree either ways the competition is going to bring out the best of the libs :)

@John: I personally use jQuery, but in business need to force hard in competition.

Having said that, @alex, Hope free-open-source doesn't strangle its own siblings!

So reporting performance comparisons helped spur some good changes to a widely used library, even if it's not our own....you'll forgive me if I don't see that as a slippery slope. It's competition and it's good for users. I continue to be for it.

As for updating the site, a major overhaul of the site has been in the works for some time and will land soon. This interim site and the numbers it reports are accurate as far as we know based on released versions.

Regards

by alex at
That seems like a tricky game to play - especially putting those results up on the Dojo homepage. Will you keep them up even when Dojo's results are slower? Because as of jQuery 1.4.2, jQuery is faster than Dojo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeresig/4311864455/

I definitely disagree that Taskspeed is a good representation of what's commonly tackled in web pages. It's certainly more comprehensive than Slickspeed (just selectors) but that's a pretty low rope to walk over.

There's a reason why the jQuery 1.4 release notes didn't look at the performance of jQuery relative to other frameworks and only compared against itself: At this point in time improvements are coming so quickly across all frameworks that it's futile to try and represent them in a single snapshot - and it would be incredibly foolhardy to assume that the current performance levels will always stay that way. A morning's worth of hacking on my end more than doubled the "performance" reported by Taskspeed - but I wouldn't go so far as to change the jQuery homepage to report that fact - since I know that the next release of Dojo (and the other frameworks) will work to try and improve those numbers again.

Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing the updated Dojo homepage.

My question is - matters most for what? it has been my experience for most tasks on modern computers it is very rare to experience a performance issue nowadays. Aside from obvious pitfalls such as extreme looping or working on many nodes simultaneously, there is no performance concern to speak of.

In my opinion the choice of framework should depend on the API, extendability, support, community and documentation. Performance is not really a concern anymore.

by Eran at
Still haven't seen these JQuery performance improvements released yet.
by Sarah G at
I'd like to second @Tony

The whole my library is faster than yours is a bit anal, especially considering querySelectorAll is now widley implemented.

jQuery won the popularity contest a long time ago; but it isn't the best choice for every situation, or suited to every programming style preference so live and let live library fanboys

by Pete B at
Dojo and jQuery are both amazing tools yet neither satisfies everything all the time. And why should they.. They're targeting different markets if you get back to their roots.

Watching the community in general though is like watching an argument about .Net vs Java. My apple is a much better apple compared to your orange.... uhh?

I really felt like the JS community was growing up when I heard both Alex and John on the same podcast telling the world we can do more and do it better.

I can understand why Alex wants the world to pay attention to dojo. If I hear one more JS user (or more recently rails developer) tell me "Dojo is slow and bloated...oh but I've never seen it or used it", I'll slap them. Such blanket statements with so little to back it up and so little understanding of the code they make claims about.

I admire that John pushes for personal bests but I think he might also understand how I and possibly Alex feel when a community filled ignorant unfounded statements needs a graph to show them their claims may need some rethinking.

I don't care who is fastest at any one moment. Only that there is real competition, that everyone is striving for it and innovating along the way.

by Tony Issakov at
jQuery 1.4.2 is now available.

http://ajax.microsoft.com/ajax/jQuery/jquery-1.4.2.min.js

Is it faster than Dojo?

by Les at
seems to, and now?