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	<title>Comments on: Dojo 1.3 Is Out!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/</link>
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		<title>By: Dojo 1.3 and PlugD Released: Q&#38;A with Dylan Schiemann &#124; Xingyu.zhang's Technology Circle</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235705</link>
		<dc:creator>Dojo 1.3 and PlugD Released: Q&#38;A with Dylan Schiemann &#124; Xingyu.zhang's Technology Circle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235705</guid>
		<description>[...] It has been reported that Dojo is at least 2 times faster than other toolkits on common DOM operations. Would you like to comment on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It has been reported that Dojo is at least 2 times faster than other toolkits on common DOM operations. Would you like to comment on [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WebDevGeekly &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 9</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235684</link>
		<dc:creator>WebDevGeekly &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 04:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235684</guid>
		<description>[...] Dojo 1.3 Released  http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dojo 1.3 Released  <a href="http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/" rel="nofollow">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/</a> [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SamuelPhotos Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dojo&#8217;s new query selector engine in version 1.3</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235681</link>
		<dc:creator>SamuelPhotos Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dojo&#8217;s new query selector engine in version 1.3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235681</guid>
		<description>[...] http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/" rel="nofollow">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/</a> [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fredrik</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235679</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredrik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235679</guid>
		<description>@alex: Ok, interesting to hear, thanks. I&#039;ve learned to enjoy the mochi-style but I&#039;ve understood (and measured) it to not necessarily have the optimum performance, though I&#039;d argue most of (my) html is create-once-use-many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@alex: Ok, interesting to hear, thanks. I&#8217;ve learned to enjoy the mochi-style but I&#8217;ve understood (and measured) it to not necessarily have the optimum performance, though I&#8217;d argue most of (my) html is create-once-use-many.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rates</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235677</link>
		<dc:creator>rates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 02:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235677</guid>
		<description>Congrates!
Dojo is great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congrates!<br />
Dojo is great.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235674</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235674</guid>
		<description>hey Fredrik:

Dojo&#039;s create() method doesn&#039;t support the full stan-like syntax for nested creation. It&#039;s (currently) more suitable for creating individual nodes. I had argued for a hierarchical version, but it was deemed to big (and potentially too slow) for Dojo Core. We may add something like that back if we can come to a resolution on that.

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey Fredrik:</p>
<p>Dojo&#8217;s create() method doesn&#8217;t support the full stan-like syntax for nested creation. It&#8217;s (currently) more suitable for creating individual nodes. I had argued for a hierarchical version, but it was deemed to big (and potentially too slow) for Dojo Core. We may add something like that back if we can come to a resolution on that.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fredrik</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235672</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredrik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235672</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a heavy dojo user (yet?), been using MochiKit.
Anyone knows how the new dojo.create() compares to the MochiKit.createDOM stuff?
(http://mochikit.com/doc/html/MochiKit/DOM.html#fn-createdom)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a heavy dojo user (yet?), been using MochiKit.<br />
Anyone knows how the new dojo.create() compares to the MochiKit.createDOM stuff?<br />
(<a href="http://mochikit.com/doc/html/MochiKit/DOM.html#fn-createdom" rel="nofollow">http://mochikit.com/doc/html/MochiKit/DOM.html#fn-createdom</a>)</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dojo Toolkit 1.3 Released &#124; Ajaxonomy</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235671</link>
		<dc:creator>Dojo Toolkit 1.3 Released &#124; Ajaxonomy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 05:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235671</guid>
		<description>[...] 2.0    The 1.3 version of the Dojo toolkit is finally out. The main focus of this release has been browser compatibility (particularly IE 8 and Chrome) and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2.0    The 1.3 version of the Dojo toolkit is finally out. The main focus of this release has been browser compatibility (particularly IE 8 and Chrome) and [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235670</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235670</guid>
		<description>Zach:

The Sly chart is junk because it uses &quot;stacked bars&quot;. Stacking values without, at a minimum, providing a table to explain the values does more to obscure the data than to present it evenly. Also, having re-run Sly through a better set of benchmarks, I&#039;ve found that their &quot;additive error values without variance&quot; chart wildly mis-represents the actual performance impact of their engine. It&#039;s not faster, it just looks that way because they used a bad benchmark and type of chart that works to obfuscate, not clarify, data.

FWIW, I don&#039;t hold it against the Sly folks...benchmarking is hard. It requires experience and some background in interpreting numbers. Many engineers don&#039;t have that background.

Also, FWIW, I argued against the &quot;Libraries&quot; section at the bottom, but it&#039;s not a huge loss to have them.  They simply add detail about relative browser performance at the toolkit level. The more important thing about the TaskSpeed charts is that they show by-toolkit numbers on a normalized scale, grouped by browser. Without that view (which Sly didn&#039;t provide), the numbers are more-or-less noise.

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach:</p>
<p>The Sly chart is junk because it uses &#8220;stacked bars&#8221;. Stacking values without, at a minimum, providing a table to explain the values does more to obscure the data than to present it evenly. Also, having re-run Sly through a better set of benchmarks, I&#8217;ve found that their &#8220;additive error values without variance&#8221; chart wildly mis-represents the actual performance impact of their engine. It&#8217;s not faster, it just looks that way because they used a bad benchmark and type of chart that works to obfuscate, not clarify, data.</p>
<p>FWIW, I don&#8217;t hold it against the Sly folks&#8230;benchmarking is hard. It requires experience and some background in interpreting numbers. Many engineers don&#8217;t have that background.</p>
<p>Also, FWIW, I argued against the &#8220;Libraries&#8221; section at the bottom, but it&#8217;s not a huge loss to have them.  They simply add detail about relative browser performance at the toolkit level. The more important thing about the TaskSpeed charts is that they show by-toolkit numbers on a normalized scale, grouped by browser. Without that view (which Sly didn&#8217;t provide), the numbers are more-or-less noise.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zach Leatherman</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235668</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Leatherman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235668</guid>
		<description>What do you mean by Chart Junk?

It seems like from a high level perspective, the Sly chart gave a good approximation of the summation across all browsers, it wasn&#039;t intended as a chart to describe the relative performance difference between specific browsers.  Seems like if you want to show one chart only, that one isn&#039;t too bad.

I would argue that some of the charts shown in the TaskSpeed reports aren&#039;t very useful, for instance the entire &quot;Libraries&quot; section at the bottom.

That being said, this is great stuff!  I definitely agree that more benchmarking needs to be done, not just the CSS selectors.

Nice work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you mean by Chart Junk?</p>
<p>It seems like from a high level perspective, the Sly chart gave a good approximation of the summation across all browsers, it wasn&#8217;t intended as a chart to describe the relative performance difference between specific browsers.  Seems like if you want to show one chart only, that one isn&#8217;t too bad.</p>
<p>I would argue that some of the charts shown in the TaskSpeed reports aren&#8217;t very useful, for instance the entire &#8220;Libraries&#8221; section at the bottom.</p>
<p>That being said, this is great stuff!  I definitely agree that more benchmarking needs to be done, not just the CSS selectors.</p>
<p>Nice work!</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ajaxian &#187; TaskSpeed: More benchmarks for the libraries and browsers</title>
		<link>http://infrequently.org/2009/03/dojo-13-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-235667</link>
		<dc:creator>Ajaxian &#187; TaskSpeed: More benchmarks for the libraries and browsers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=905#comment-235667</guid>
		<description>[...] want the TaskSpeed library task test suite to be lost in the Dojo 1.3 announcement. Alex called it out:  Pete Higgins has been working on a new set of benchmarks with the help of other toolkit vendors [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] want the TaskSpeed library task test suite to be lost in the Dojo 1.3 announcement. Alex called it out:  Pete Higgins has been working on a new set of benchmarks with the help of other toolkit vendors [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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